Should motion comics be cheaper and/or free with ads?:
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Wolvy83
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How to make them better?

OK, so at this stage it seems motion comics, animated comics or comic in motion are very much like their name - still undefined. What are the things that we do and don't like about them. What can we say that will make the motion comics community make them the way we want them to.

My first thought is for the the creators - sometimes I get the impression that the people making the comics have more focus on trying to impress other digital artist with how much motion they can put in. Iron man, or fall out toyworks being great examples. It's almost like "oooh look what we can do with a computer, isn't this impressive to my peers!"

But they should be focusing on making motion comics the way consumers want them too, and that could be simpler, which might mean they can produce them cheaper. 
Sorry, ranting a bit, but do you get what I mean?

Another thing would be - "No mouth movement"

Can we define the undefined genre??

Elsebeth
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I'd like them to do more

I'd like them to do more classic remakes e.g. batgirl, batman and red son.

I love the sunshine

Starman
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The most imporant thing can

The most imporant thing can be summed up in one word - good story.
(Yes I am aware that is two words)

I define them as comic books with motion. Which means that they need to have started out being a comic book / graphic novel. If it doesn't work as a graphic novel, then it's not going to work as a motion comic. Even if you fill it with motion and sound. It has to be able to stand on it's own two feet as a story without the technology enhancements.

Crooooooom!!!!

Lyon Gaultier
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Agreed. A good story is the

Agreed. A good story is the main thing. But even more importantly is the right story for a motion comic. Wind in the willows is a good story, but i think it would be a lousy motion comic. Whereas Dead Space might be a boring book, but was an engaging motion comic.

pmann
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buy or they die

I think they would be better if people actually started paying for them instead of downloading them illegally. Support the industry or itll dry up!!! Same for movies and animation. I couldnt care less about the music industry, but thats cause I dont care for music and dont listen to it.

"Being cool isn't simple, but being simple is cool". - Simple Simon.

Grant Ford
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I agree with you 100%. And I

I agree with you 100%. And I buy everything myself. But I thought I'd mention an interesting discussion I had with someone the other day who downloads stuff. (not motion comics) He said he doesn't like being illegal, and it's not about not paying. He said he would be happy to pay IF it was easier to do so. He claimed he uses torrents etc due to supply and demand. Often can't get what he wants from itunes etc very easily. He says he downloads illegally because it's the most hassle free way of getting things. If it was easier to buy then he'd pay the money.

 

Not the point of view I expected. I assumed that all pirates were selfish short sighted cheapskates. This guys swears he'd pay for it if there was a nice simple way to without exhausting signups etc. "Who wouldn't pay a few bucks for a tv episode. It's only $2".

2 minutes noodle generation - must have everything asap. His problem isn't paying, it's hassle and waiting.

He also said he'd happily watch ads in the middle of TV show and movies online if they were free. Basically like TV. As long as it worked quickly.

Just to clarify, this was his opinion, not mine. I love my iTunes store and iPad :) Him and I have argued about piracy before.

"I can't see into the future but at least I can use the heater."

Lyon Gaultier
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I see where he's coming from.

I see where he's coming from. We've tried to hire moves from itunes a number of times.

It works maybe 30% of the time.

We've lost a few family Friday nights because of it. Everybody sitting round waiting whilst I try not to sweat my head off at apple.

Now I just get DVDs from the local rental place (like I used to).

It's easier (there's that word again)

Wolvy83
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netflix

Gave up on itunes and went to netflix.

Wolvy83
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Grant I've been thinking

Grant I've been thinking about your friend. Not wanting to pay due to waiting is the same as justifying stealing from the supermarket because there is a long line.

"Oh look, a line. I think i'll just walk out the door with these groceries instead. It's the supermarkets fault for making me wait so I can just steal the stuff. If they make me wait they lose the right to my money."

He's still a thief who will bring down the economy.

Guest
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waiting ...

I agree that piracy is a real problem and cannot be justified, however for fans of motion comics based outside the U.S., getting access to content is a real issue. It's not a matter of waiting in line at a supermarket, unless you are prepared to wait fro three months until that content is available elsewhere. International digital rights are an issue here and I'm not sure what the answer is ...

Grant Ford
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That's true. I've heard

That's true. I've heard overseas people can't access some of them at all. That baffles me. Why limit the market of a product that can be distributed world wide. There is no doubt a reason. But it would have to be a good one. 

It always amazes me how people don't want to pay $1-$4 to download a movie, tv show or motion comic to buy. But they will pay up to $6 to rent a DVD for the night... one that is scratched and skips and requires time and gas to go and get it. I do not understand it.

"I can't see into the future but at least I can use the heater."

totalblamblam
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I think they already are

I think they already are getting better. Less focus on motion and more on how the story is told will continue to make them a great medium.

Starman
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Stick big long ads in the

Stick big long ads in the middle of them. Over the top of the visuals. That'll stop the pirates.

Crooooooom!!!!

Julekens
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Story and pressure on the viewer

First I agree with a good story! We've had the try-outs of re-published issues like Watchmen and expanded stories like 28 Days Later. In my opinion that's playing safe and give this new medium a try. So that works out. Now take it to a higher level and come up with new stories.

What I like about books, comics and graphic novels is that you can stop, pause and continue reading whenever you want. You decide your own pace. I find this very well worked out in Metal Gear Solid. I like to browse through the pages and re-read sometimes if necessary. In Stephen King's 'N' I think to much pressure was placed on the viewer because of the speed, and that's not the only motion comic I experienced this.
My point is: like a book, comic or graphic novel, it should be comfortable watching.

Grant Ford
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I really enjoyed Stephen

I really enjoyed Stephen Kings 'N'. But I agree with you point in general. It's something that gets said a lot about transitioning Comics to Motion Comics - one big loss is the ability to control the pace and timing of the story. That's something many comic readers love about traditional comics.

I liked how Perfect Echo approached MCs. YOu still controlled the pacing by clicking forward,the motion happened within the frame that you clicked to. I'd like to see things move in that direction a bit more and further away from cheap 3D animation (not mentioning anyone in particular... cough cough.. marvel... cough cough)

"I can't see into the future but at least I can use the heater."

Julekens
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Perfect Echo

Could you tell me some more about Perfect Echo? Does it work kinda like Metal Gear Solid? I don't have a smartphone to test it.

Grant Ford
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I haven't seen Metal Gear

I haven't seen Metal Gear Solid, so I can't say.
Perfect Echo - Rather than playing out like an animation, it plays in stages and you control when it progresses.

Each shot is animated and has cool atmos sound and sound effects. When you want the story to progress you click forward and it takes you to the next shot/panel/slide. It's like moving from panel to panel in a paperback comic book, except these panels are animated.

I enjoyed the style. I was however a little confused at the storyline. But that comes down to the storytellers abilities to tell the story, the dialogue mainly.

nice blog by the way

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shockwave
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What I very much enjoyed

What I very much enjoyed regarding Perfect Echo was that it felt very much like a comic. They captured that feeling perfectly. Although I will admit I too found it a little hard to follow.

Gembot (Guest)
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Motion Comics and Illustrated Films

I like the idea of Motion Comics, I also think that as a format, its the most feesable and logical next step in the evolution of comic books as a medium. I also think that they will also introduce a new fan base to the comic book universe. Until the iPad/ Tablet PC came out I always thought reading comics on a computer screen was a painfull experience. Also the flash comics and digital comics that were available online didn't really make me all that excited either. But with the advent rise of tablet computer technology, I feel that it gives rise to new and exciting possibilities with how to interface comic books in a digital environment, the most obvious being the incorporation of motion and sound. But like Wolvy83 said with regards to Motion Comics, the idea and what to name it is still at this stage undefined. I'd like to offer my views on this subject.
I've seen about 4 or 5 different formats in which Motion comics have been presented and honesly some were, in my opinion, over shot and some got it just right. As far as I'm concerned, offerings like Sony's Uncharted series and Konami's Metal Gear Solid Digital Graphic Novel(though the art leaves something to be desired.) got it just right. A comic or graphic novel fundementally, is a story told using a sequence of pictures, speech bubbles and naration blocks which you READ. And in that regard I think that those two examples are excactly what Motion Comics should be as they maintain the core aspects and experience of what a comic book or graphic novel is, except now you have sound and animation (which allows for panel depth, exciting transitions and 3d elements) to give the story, scene and pacing that much more impact.
Now the way Marvel have approached the Digital Motion Comics medium, like in the case of Thor and Loki and Ironman:Extremis(Which blew me away might I add.), I'd say they play out better being marketed as Illustrated Films because they are essentially animated translations of their print offerings (Lip movements, voice acting and all.). This format works well for you if you want to the detail heavy artwork that comic books offer and narative style digitally on youriPhone and smartphone and portable device such as PSP's because its a pain in the ass to read speech bubbles on such small screens.
I think motion comics done in the vein of Halo & Batman: Black & White are also perfectly suited for your iPhone and smartphone experience, if its so important for you to have your comics on those devices.

So basically (in my view):

Motion Comics = Uncharted, Metal Gear Solid

Uncharted would even translate well on smartphones and portable devices as they have voices to boot.

Illustrated Films= Ironman Extremis, Astonishing X-Men

iPhone/Smartphone/ Poratble Device adapted Motion Comics = Halo, Batman: Black & White.

Richard
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Agree

I definately agree with you here.

I'd also love to see motion comics movie towards this type of thing:

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/the-fantastic-flying-books/id438052647?mt=8

It's an amazing kids book but has so much potential to shift comics into a more interactive medium.

Comic book publishers could really take note of this new APP based storytelling.

Their seems to be a lot of indepentant people doing it but not the majors.

I'd like to see a sequence based App comic that works much like a story board but with more motion from panel to panel. Then you could make the viewer swipe to a quick motion comic like animation for a cut scene. Then back to a click through. You could leave sound and music out but let the 'MOTION' be like the key poses in an animation. This would give the power back to the viewer to choose the pace at which they read.

Really hope someone gives this a try. Motion Comics are great but we just have to know how to use them effectively in a transmedia world.

 

Collboration is the key to Greatness.

Gembot (Guest)
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Improvement

I think a really great Motion Comic would be something between the Ironman: Extremis, Thor & Loki Astonishing X-Men model (The action sequences were very nicely done) and the Uncharted, Metal Gear Solid model (I love the way they did some of the transitions and scenes.) I think comics lost their appeal in mainstream consiousness because Gaming and motion picture CGI technology got way better, while comics remained...static(The last real improvement was print quality, digital colouring and inking.)

...just saying

Grant Ford
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 "Their seems to be a lot of

 "Their seems to be a lot of indepentant people doing it but not the majors."  

I couldn't agree more with this statement. I think it's why motion comics aren't cracking the big time yet. People instantly go to Marvel to see what motion comics are and then find themselves watching a low budget 3D animation.

The Majors are holding it back.

Also I think Gembot has hit the nail on the head with seperating the two into different mediums. Iron Man Extremis is far too different to Halo, MGS and Batman B/W to be defined as the same genre.

"I can't see into the future but at least I can use the heater."

Wolvy83
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Gembot for Marvel President

My award* for best response goes to Gembot. I think you have gotten it just right.

*NOTE: Award does not actually exist and if it did it would remain the property of wolvy83. Any claims or cases for the prize will not be acknowledged.

Grant Ford
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Badman Silence

Badman Silence is an excellent example of what I think a motion comics should be like.

"I can't see into the future but at least I can use the heater."

Gembot (Guest)
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I don't know why everyone is

I don't know why everyone is knocking Marvel's stuff so much. I really enjoyed Astonishing X-Men, Ironman: Extremis and Thor & Loki: Blood Brothers. One has to put them into context to fully enjoy them. Its not animation, its somewhere between anime and motion design.
I really love how they integrate 3D models with the 2D artwork.
I like that its not full on animation coz you get to enjoy the detail that comic book art has, in motion (a dream come true.).
Of course there's room for growth considering that the medium is still in its baby phase. But I can honestly see it turning into big business if motion comics are done in the context of illustrated films. Budgets will obviously have to be more lavish, illustrator & writer teams will have marquee value in the way actors & directors do in Hollywood and action sequences will be more exciting.
Can you imagine how cool some of these motion comics will look with Jim Lee, Joe Madureira or Leinil Francis Yu artwork? I saw the trailer for Marvel vs Capcom the other day where they used a similar technique (3d models with 2d comic book styled artwork.) and it looked damn good. If Marvel and them can take notes from some of these video game and Hollywood companies (the 'Kung-Fu Panda' intro sequences use motion comic principles. So does the 'Preist' intro sequence.)they can make into a viable industry in its own right.
We need more stand alone projects in regard to pushing the medium and the big companies need to start start taking bigger bets. Research what audiences really wanna see coz I could give two shits about Spider Woman. But honestly I love how marvel have handled the medium so far. Its exciting because it also inspires ideas. If only someone could be brave enough to play movie producer, then motion comics wouldn't be so motion design like. (Do me a favor check out the DC Universe online motion comic trailers on Youtube (The ones Jim Lee did.), specifically the one with Lex Luthor called 'The Future Of Humanity' and tell me you wouldn't watch that kind of motion comic.)

Erik Bruhwiler (Guest)
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Motion Comics should be animated stories

Comics have a style and design on the page that appeals to many people. Motion Comics should feed of that style and design and bring it to life in a compelling way that appeals to even MORE people. Should.

I am working on a huge project that will test this assertion. Hopefully everyone will agree and want more. Much more. See some early R&D tests:

http://www.youtube.com/user/sluicee

Grant Ford
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Eric, that is some awesome

Eric, that is some awesome test footage! Maul and Tarkin looks really really cool. Bring on more! Somebody give this guy a million bucks. George Lucas... are you out there? Pay this man!

"I can't see into the future but at least I can use the heater."

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